The Island by Hafiz Jamu

Hafiz was a key part of these interviews shared on HeritageLab. He introduced me to several fellow community leaders, showed the pathways across all of the Island, was a interpreter, and most of all a partner during fieldwork. Finally, it was his time to get interviewed. Early in the morning, we sat by "O Escondidinho" and had a long chat on Heritage, the Island, and Identity.

Hafiz Jamu

Religious leader; President of the Associação Ilha de Moçambique, 46 years old
Excerpted · August 2017

About his background:
I embraced this cause of heritage protection, and heritage in general. What happens is that at the time I realized that there was a separation in the middle of the island between the island where the local population lives, the macuti part, and the part of the stone city that was where the Portuguese administration, the last component was the administration occupy this side. So I thought it was best to create a friendship between these two sides. During this process, it was important to look at the heritage as everyone's, and there I created an organization that should have its headquarters in the stone city part, in the richest part or most favoured part. When this part had only cultural component.

The Island of Mozambique was classified as World Heritage Site for two reasons: material heritage, the houses, and intangible heritage, the behavior and way of being of people - habits and customs, traditions, these sort of things... and that’s it. We are going to embrace it. Over time, I also realized that there was underwater heritage on the island of Mozambique. I went to a meeting and noticed several foreigners at war with each other. And why were they fighting between them? Then I realized that there was an underwater heritage that each wanted to dilapidate.

Interviewer: The community did not know it existed and the outsiders already knew and...
Hafiz Jamu: And they were already taking care of it. So when I went to find out more, I ended up joining that cause that I already had in the foundation (Ilha de Moçambique Foundation) and included the underwater heritage. One must also preserve this to bring benefits to the populations and of various orders, for tourism, tranquility, and peace. Create a friendly environment here on the Island of Mozambique where everyone participates and wins. Heritage is here for everyone.

But was not there a friendly environment before? Were the people divided among themselves?
H. J.: Well… The interests here... If you arrive here you feel that everything is friendly but after some time you realize that there are islands inside the Island. There are interests. Then we went into another dimension where I started to bump into the people who were exploring the underwater heritage. They were really taking it. I was young then. I was 23/24 years old when I realized that the heritage should not be sold, it should be preserved. We would benefit more and better if it was preserved and not sold. And not only would I benefit. The next generations that will stay here on the Island, will too.

So that's what got me excited and because of my interventions, Professor Roberto came to Maputo to talk to Unesco about the underwater heritage. And Unesco invited me to be in Maputo. Then I met Professor Robert Parthesius. The mayor was invited, the director of GACIM was also, and suddenly we were completely on different sides. At the time, in full meeting ... I pull it to one side, the county president pulling it to another and that "no, it cannot be done, cannot be sold! ..." And then I presented my vision at the time blurred but that interested Professor Robert. He had a friend Bill Jeffrey that was there too. And because of this interaction I was invited to participate in a training session, in an interaction on Robben Island with Jonathan Sharfman. There I learned more o what could be done, how it could be done, the best way, the good practices and that interested me. I’ve returned to the Island and started to discuss matters with a little more knowledge...

Discussing with who?
H. J.: With the government and here was a company that was doing the research...

Arqueonautas?
H. J.: Yes, Arqueonautas. So then I'd discussed it without information, but now I had knowledge.

And did Hafiz have the authority to discuss such things?
H. J.: Yes, yes, because of my religious side. So any meeting that happens on the Island, any subject that has to do with the island I’m invited... but I used to discuss with little information. Sometimes I would leave a meeting, because I’d said things I did not know... I was a kid... and I spoke with great euphoria. Then, if I had someone else who was also part of my cause, they would pick it up and employ it and I'd lose supporters and be weakened day after day. I was falling and falling. So I went to work with other NGOs but always at the local level. Once, it appeared a gentleman who employed me in an NGO. Under my contract, there was a conception that he had a social responsibility in the island so there are certain things that the NGO was not willing to do but they had to do because of this employee. So I included some ideas of heritage protection within that NGO. They used to support me, give me strength, I had a salary, I did not worry about my children's breakfast.

Then, I went through another training with Professor Robert Parthesius. He was calling me, giving me more inputs. I was in Dar es Salaam and met others with a cause just like mine. We staying in a network, in touch and we were discussing the issues. I was admitted to participate in the LinkedIn platform with specialists and professionals trained in sub-Saharan heritage. Once I said things... And the teacher explained who I was, that I was like that, to let me talk... Because I used to say things... But today I go there to read and I see that no... I should not talk that way...

But you were too hasty, was upset about things...?
H. J.: Yes I was annoyed. I did not see the Arqueonautas stop. I was young and had no means to make them stop, had no power…

And how did it stop?
H. J.: There were other forces that joined the cause, the case of Professor Ricardo (Teixeira Duarte) who is working now. And when he did, there was a need for civil society intervention, so I would show up - "We do not want to, it's not like that." And these things I've been learning, as one does research, on Robben Island. I got here and demanded - I want a report and so on. A report that brings an interpretation, a history, we want the objects in the museum to be able to observe, we want real knowledge of things.

They would come and…
H. J.: Exactly. They had things we did not even understand. No, this was loot and not research. Then Professor Ricardo appears and then they always said: if we leave, who is doing the things? So, Professor Ricardo fills this place. The Mozambican ability to do this research. It came to the consciousness of the government that they could not continue with this type of activity. And that’s it. Then came the Smithsonian. That it is here now. They came to say that they have the opportunity to fund this - okay.

They came here to “offer” funding or did Hafiz or someone fill out an application?
H. J.: No. Everyone already knew. It has to do with the interest in American slavery/”blackness”, because of President Obama, of the origins of black people... There is talk about a boat that left Mozambique in this part of the “blackness”. So the Smithsonian is keen to enter. The only thing is that we ... since I was part of an American NGO I did my part in attracting another form of intervention. Speaking to the American embassy, ​​talking to the Smithsonian ... But I never wrote anything. I just interacted with them orally, bridging. The Smithsonian comes and according to the formal side of things, the partnerships should be with Eduardo Mondlane University. Until then, it was planned that I would work with the program, according to the ambassador, because I was very involved with the process. But then I was not included. I presented a different way of doing things because I'm not an archaeologist or a scuba diver but the only function I wanted with that was to make society clearly included in the presentation of this heritage.

My organization… I could not make a foundation, but it is known as foundation. For me to make a foundation I needed a million dollars. What happens? To register the foundation I would have had to take some houses, some parts of the estate and suddenly there was a reaction: “Hafiz will keep this.” This is impersonal. “No, this is not mine.” According to the founding statutes, in case of diverting our interests from our foundation, the assets return to the state. It's not personal, I do not sell. But for me to be able to sign official documents I had to formalize an association. This I did. I managed to formalize it. There is an assembly of the traditional groups of the Island. It exists, it is registered.

Which groups?
H. J.: Association of Fishermen, tourism association, all associations, in principle those who are over 50 years old, who contribute to the culture and contribute to people's way of being. The second ones are the formal ones, which were already registered, i.e. Association Friends of the Island, of Fishermen, APETUR. These are three formal ones.

Do people who often form associations also have a religious background like Hafiz?
H. J.: Yes, they all do. Some of the formal ones do not have a religious character, but it is an association and works in the island. It has to do with the sea, there are the majority of the fishermen. At the time it had not to do with the sea, it had to do with employability. The whole island lives on fish and salt. These are the two industries that employ the largest number of people. These are the economic engines, selling fish and producing salt outside the Island.

We have included the Association Friends of the Island because it is the oldest association, there are people there with interests for heritage conservation and interests for the development of the Island. We also included the Association of Goldsmiths and Craftsmen. All the ancient craftsmen are there in that association and are founding members of the foundation and have seat. Let us have a letter saying that so-and-so is our representative, who can come and have a vote. In total we are 17 groups, each with a seat, and a vote. What happens is that we are looking for support, just to be able to keep running it. And to be able to protect other things around the Island according to the emergency of the moment.

Are you satisfied with the current situation of the Island, considering the stakeholders who are acting at the moment?
H. J.: Yes, in terms of stop selling heritage yes. I am not satisfied with the inclusion of civil society. It is not being conducted, there is much to be done. We are saying that the Arqueonautas’s stop is only of conscience is not legal. It only is legal from the moment that Mozambique signs the agreement for the Convention for the Protection of Underwater Cultural Heritage. Only there it is legal. Now this whole process involves the production of laws, discussion of laws, disclosure of laws, disclosure of modalities, forms and this can not be done to 80% with outsiders, it has to be with people here, we have to be trained for this process . We will evolve institutionally in this process and then we will continue. I had an agreement at the time to share information across the Indian Ocean, from Namibia, South Africa, Mozambique, me, Kenya, Tanzania, Seychelles, Madagascar. We are a network of people who are trained how to conserve heritage, we share experiences, formalities.

To learn from each other.
H. J.: Exactly. We are all enrolled in ICCROM. What is missing from us here is to start having an institutional capacity, so that my colleagues can understand what is this about heritage conservation. We talk about this but, for example, the Smithsonian did not listen to us. They are more interested in ships. But there is a subsystem of these ships, of this ship, which has like others, society is not even involved in conservation.

Do you think that people generally care about conservation of the Island, or do not care because they are not aware.
H. J.: They are not aware.

You think that if they had knowledge, that it would be different.
H. J.: Yes. In this situation we have to realize that I keep heritage and I do not sell it. If I sell I have 100 immediate meticais (local currency). But if I do not sell it, I can have 20 meticais every day for a long time and this heritage is still “mine”. It continues here. Selling low price but it is still here. This is the way that the conservation, the preservation is confirmed. It achieves certain things that are often not spoken in meetings. The fact that I feel proud of myself, of my race, of my history, and that the idea that I am a citizen of the third world is not preserved, because I am black, because I have been through the process of slavery. These are aspects that are never spoken of. We would like that archaeology would help us jump that wall. That is the mission of my organization. Bust this wall, that gap between the most benefited and the less benefited, the enslaved and the colonizers. That no.

And how do you intend to materialize it?
H. J.: It's what I do on a daily basis. I created this organization where all the organizations are there. They keep learning. They should have an institution where they could work and be involved in these processes.

Do people adhere to the associations on the Island?
H. J.: Not now. Before it was more that I belonged to the association and had friends in others. Not anymore. Few. The involvement of young people in associativity has greatly diminished.

Why?
H. J.: There are no stimuli for associativity. We have a room there that should have computers and create three or four young people who are fit for this or that. Now we have a fair – go. Now we have a child recruitment event. Wealth is all here to produce everything. It's all here. All that is needed is the push for things to happen gradually.

Do you think that the coming of outsiders contributes to your mission of destroying the walls?
H. J.: In the way that is being done right now, no. That's why I do not even participate. Not like this. It has no sustainability. When they go, it's over.

But they are with students from the University of Mondlane, Maputo.
H. J.: Yes, and they will stay in Maputo. It does not have sustainability. They go to Maputo and have their life there. It’s not sustainable to call Maputo and say “ah here's a boat!"... No. Like all the other projects on the Island. They modified the Island. They came here, they did. The islanders did not kept anything. There is no sustainability.

Do you think the Island of Mozambique has changed over time, especially after the WHS classification?
H. J.: Yes. The classification of UNESCO has brought negative things. I can only say the following: people, foreigners realized the values of the houses. The islanders only now. We are almost 20 years into it and it is only now that the value of the islands is in the houses, it is in the people. And these people have already changed because, the social free society changes...

Are people becoming more skeptical of outsiders?
H. J.: Exactly. Formerly when someone came from outside, there were receptions, they received people and they were happy and they said: “I was never as welcome as on the Island of Mozambique”. Not now. People are more and more... “Another thief coming”.

So, you are not at all pleased with what is happening on the Island.
H. J.: The way it's being done is no. It is not as we had idealized.

Cannot schools be involved, such as by extra-curricular activities?
H. J.: It’s possible to do it all. All this can be done. What's upsetting me is this. As long as there are some defrauded/scammed people, certain people have been involved. Now there is no fraud/scam. These people are outside. What is the feeling of these people? We should have made a fool of ourselves in the fraud. We should have been part of the scam. Because maybe so maybe we could have been involved. There was no dissatisfaction. All the people who took part in with me say, “So Hafiz, were we involved in this?” No... so...?

So nothing.
H. J.: So nothing. So those who came again turned their backs on us. How do I turn this fire off? Let's see.

Can you give me some concrete example of what you say?
H. J.: For example, civil society, those who were part of the pressure for the Arqueonautas to leave here should have the opportunity to be given more training on the process and to be the sentinels of the patrimony. This has to happen. But there has to be a place where they can stay. Any place with authority. If the president wants to do some things, they can do anything to intervene and influence that decision.

Is not GACIM supposed to do that?
H. J.: GACIM serves this purpose, yes. But in fact what that does not happen. It is the deciding authority. But who influences the decisions they make? Civil society is not involved, what is it all about? "Ah, it's to be in the museums." Do local people go to museums? No, they do not. People also do not realize that the whole Island is a museum. For us the walls of the museum, are familiar, are things that we do not appreciate. My walk on the Island, is already part of the museum and I'm not there with a mirror to look at myself. No one goes to the museum. That is ours, we live it, we live together. No one comes here to say "I'm going to enjoy Escondidinho (name of a hotel). I'll visit and meet Escondidinho." No, this is my way of seeing.

But do you think museums should not exist?
H. J.: No, no! That's for the ones who comes.

In the Island there are boys who offer themselves as guides, for guided tours around the Island, telling the history of Mozambique. That is, there are young people interested in history. What fails between their interest in history and belonging to an association to carry out projects?
H. J.: They will join an association when they see the benefits of it. It is a way of life where people do not join forces to reach a world. Each one is by itself. I can offer myself to help the guides and then…? What am I going to do? I'm going to give the sandals for them to wear but I cannot give just to one, I have to give to a group. “Ah but we are not a group, we are an association.” But do you get together to promote advocacy for heritage conservation? Zero! Do you hold an assembly and then determine the matters that are part of heritage conservation? Zero.

The protection of heritage on the Island, for the time being, is due to the shared efforts of many individuals. Individual efforts.
H. J.: Yes. Always with interests of sale and foreign benefit. But not for the benefit of all people. This is what we want to do, things for a lot of people. Now we have this building, it stands still. You're coming for example. The foundation has a part office, a zone like that painted and another one that is not so clean, is under construction. For the community people who come to do studies it would be nice that benefited the island. A person that comes here to study and instead of staying at a hotel, he's coming in and we're getting through. Now if there is any course, tell us that money is not for us to take, not to eat. It is to maintain the building, to use the building for the people themselves. Because it is. It was from the state but now we assure it. If it was the government would have sold out and turned hotel.

Do they also have people formally trained in heritage studies working at GACIM?
H. J.: Of course! And if they do not have them, call the university and say: we have a vacancy for this sector.

And someone will come for sure.
H. J.: Why not? They have money to fund this. The government has money to fund the technician's salary. We don’t. We are only here to watch, so that is the question. It was better if we had join the process with Arqueonautas. No, no, no, no…

Then people also begin to lose faith because they see that nothing changes.
H. J.: Nothing changes and will become general. But this is like a time bomb. People will get to a point and say "Let us also steal". Let it go. Oh, this has to stop. Because? This does not work. But it was good that we had a chance. Civil society. Tell me what you think of it. Three components: we should be empowering for example community policing, because in fact the island of Mozambique, there is a bay (starts sketching on a map). All this zone including this one in the sea that is of our interest. From this corner to this corner has to be policed. Because there are many shipwrecks here. Others were shot and continued to flee and ended up here. This area has to be patrolled all over.

And nowadays they only focus on the Island of Mozambique.
H. J.: Exactly. And people who are not from the Island, are from Maputo.

But what does patrolling mean? Policemen or normal people patrolling.
H. J.: People who are studying heritage and at the same time protect. Or even fishermen. Fishermen who, using their natural side to deal with the sea, are aware that no one here can touch the water that is there. “Look, there's a boat and such. What is this?” And we'll talk to the authorities. Do not touch it. It's possible. Creating archaeological sites is a beautiful place to create tourism.

Because Mozambique does not have many archaeological sites.
H. J.: Underwater archaeological stations. For example, there is now a dive with Ricardo. If there are tourists we do ... I lived through these things, I lived it, not of this in concrete but of the sort. We got there and asked, how many tourists are there? I would take 16 people there to Macuti and pick them up at the hotels. This same formula can be used. If there is a dive here, that is already sealed the station, is in service, let's go there, let's watch the excavation, we get down there and we see the excavation happening, to work. It is happening and you do not touch. You do not play because there's someone to control them.

It's like a museum.
H. J.: Exactly. This is tourism. This is it.

But these are things that take a long time. Even for example in Portugal where people have a higher literacy rate and there are many more archaeologists, people continue to carry artifacts home, or to melt gold pieces they find…
H. J.: Yes ... So are these things that ... When this group is trained here within the organization there are already 3/4 people who are not even in uniform. Community service. Who supervises everything that goes on. I've been to Zanzibar. You come to a beach and you see young people playing football. And four of them are cops. You do not cross with any police on the street, but you're quiet. Someone's on the street and picked up your briefcase, it is taking it. Two young people, others follow and pick it back.

So you think Zanzibar is a good example of what the Island of Mozambique can and should be.
H. J.: Yes. Security and tourism, a boiling industry. A calm city, everything very well controlled. At night you see no one. But if someone makes a mistake, a crime, soon someone appears to touch you and say no, do not do this.

But do you consider the Island of Mozambique dangerous?
H. J.: No, no. Now, by chance, they took my computer. But when they steal the computer and it's like five thefts in a year. But one has to feel secure. The tourist has to feel safe. Only this impact brings more people. Then we sell the archaeological things several times. There are several factors that have to ... It is a strategy in which several points have to correspond to moles.

Foreigners think Island of Mozambique it's a dangerous place at war...
H. J.: Yes, yes. That's why taking people to macuti was my job. Because it was said that if you went to the macuti zone they would steal your camera. But it was a lie. I would take the people there. The people can go to the macuti area to walk around, this is good. We already won.

The fortress of São Sebastião is now empty. Do you think it's a good solution or one should rehabilitate the space? And if so, with what?
H. J.: Several things can happen there. As long as they are not things ... or one can fill the space but one must go giving that house a smile, a feeling that that building was a military house. It is neither a residence nor a palace, it is a military house and of repression. He participated heavily in the slavery process. It took about 90 years to be built and I do not know why but nobody likes the house, in fact, we the population. It is as if in our subconscious we knew that we suffer there then we must take advantage of that space but we must wash its face. The house has to have a warm smile. "Ah, do a school there" but be careful you have to do something else. It cannot happen for example a party, because when you have a party there ... And the house is happy, for moments. It can be done for example in a corner a museum, a little thing there ... but the house cannot be closed to parties.

And do parties take place there?
H. J.: Yes, yes. The last festivals happened there. Whatever we want to do there, we have to take into account for the party to happen.

It has to be joyous things.
H. J.: Yes. The party has to happen in there.

Do you think there is a great weight in the history of slavery here on the Island that people feel? Or in general do not care.
H. J.: They no longer care about that. So much. When there is discussion, people of this family and such. Because once the process was over, some people were assimilated, they were taken over by family. I remember my father had someone who walked with him and my father told us that, I know this young man, this gentleman, from my childhood, was with me my whole life. When my father became ill, that gentleman lay down on the floor, my father in the hospital. He lay on the ground and only left when my father left. He was actually their slave, given by my grandfather's father who had a slave. If my father did not do his homework, it was him that would be punished, not my father. It was this gentleman. But how did we treat him? By uncle. He was not my father's brother, he was not family but we treated him as if he were family. He later lost his sight and my sister took care of him and took him to the hospital for cataract surgery. We treated him like family. That's just to say that in other families it happened like that. And they say the origin of that person is that. The behaviour of that family comes from there. We do not talk, but we do.

And you think it's important to talk?
H. J.: Evil is talking about knocking down other people, not that. But we can talk about healing the wound and making the person more productive. I liked that. Making the person with more love. Make you more cheerful, more loving, more, much more. It is always good, now talk about the hurt of others not.

What does the Island mean to you?
I do not know. I'm connected in a way ... I'm supposed to die here, there's no way to avoid that. It is the legacy of my grandfathers. I would love to get out of here and live my youth life and break life and walk around. But responsibility is ingrained in my life, it is done, I cannot give it up. It is as if my father's name goes out, my existence goes out. No, no. I have conflicts with my children for example and... you have to take care of this. You have to stay here. And they say "no no, we already studied and we want to go to our life". And just one that shows willingness to stay but suddenly ... let's see ... it is a big challenge. But it's a mistake again that my parents did not tell me. I'm telling them. My parents did not tell me. I felt guilty, it is probably the mistake I'm making.

What is your opinion of UNESCO presence here on the island?
H. J.: I think that once again the problem is sustainability. UNESCO did not really play a big role. Unesco has small grants that it gives. NGOs and usually someone cames from the south, wins a scholarship, come here, and set up. Now when UNESCO wants to come here to do punctual work, they use that office. It is not a UNESCO office. Then there was a scholarship that UNESCO gave three years to an NGO, I forgot the name. And they developed the works here. I've never seen UNESCO office here. To have an office here means to have a lady secretary with contract with UNESCO, a project manager, program manager and a coordinator of UNESCO activities. I never saw.

I thought there had been an office here with a small representation of UNESCO.
H. J.: It was from an NGO that had a contract with UNESCO. Now one thing is for sure. If they had given this contract to a local NGO, these technicians could have come to work for us on the island today, but the interaction of the office had been with an island lady, an island guard who actually practices island acts and that office would be alive. And that information would be on the Island, with the islanders. The office closed and what was left? Nothing. Lack of sustainability.

Does the island of Mozambique have any tourist centers?
H. J.: USAID helped to create one. But suddenly the council took over and the building exists. Missing is riding.

But you feel that there is no interest of the municipality in carrying out these initiatives...
H. J.: It's in the system. Interest exists. But they want someone from outside to finance, they have the money to do. Did someone need to come out and create a tourist information center? No, this is not normal. The idea exists, the building exists...

Where is the center situated?
H. J.: By the bridge. The building exists, it was built.

So it was built especially to be a tourist center.
H. J.: Yes. People exist. The will exists in people. But for this, people are always that something to happen has to be by the foreigner. That's where everything does not fit.

Do you feel that there are divisions between the two sides of the city?
H. J.: There is a clear division between sides. Whoever is on this side (Stone Town) is considered more non-genuine.

So what can I do to be useful here these days?
H. J.: Institutional capacity building. These main objectives were the training, the social pressure here, for the country to sign the convention and this convention to be fragile in the community, to have an impact. Desired impact protection of underwater heritage. And then the buildings are the entrance door, to improve the quality of life, the entrance door is tourism, from income for families...